Timestamps are in UTC.
tantek: he was even a recursive puppet at one point, when malkovich went into the tunnel
hober, indeed, and you saw how well that worked
Maybe we could use rel-include for that :)
or rather, object@class=include
is an alias implied by "me", or should the relationship be more explicit ?
(same goes for employer/employee/client/tenant/landlord outside the context of a hResume and hCal)
edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=9543 * Chris Messina * (+171) added Blinksale
comments on rel="puppet" vs rel="avatar" from another Resident of SL:
In RL puppet/puppeteer is common, but fails to describe the relationship between the user and the avatar.
[17:48] Tateru Nino: Basically, for most people in SL, the avatar is as the word describes it. An extension, or projection of the self.
[17:49] Tateru Nino: "Puppet" is grieferspeak.
[17:49] Tateru Nino: They don't have any attachment to the avatar, nor fully grasp that anyone else does either.
I'd say it was quite an accurate/similar use in Being John Malkovich
Cusack's character *definitely* used Malkovich as an extension of the self
?def grieferspeak
Nobody has defined grieferspeak yet
"projection of the self" is a bit of an exaggeration - as much as when you are playing any other videogame and controlling a character on the screen is a "projection of the self". SL just has more degrees of freedom. More puppet strings to pull on and joints to move.
avatars are just hightech virtual puppets
heh
^replies might take a while, Tateru is being interviewed (again)
now when you upload/download your consciousness into other "vessels", then we can have this conversation about "the self" again
c.f. Matrix etc.
I think what Tateru was meaning is that the word "puppet" does not accurately describe the relationship between a natural person and their virtual persons
[18:04] Tateru Nino: Heh. Nobody can define the self. Once we can figure out how to transfer it, I think we'll have a better notion of how puppet vs avatar paradigms relate to each other.
no jokes about rel="me" please :P
I think there may be a bit of antipuppetism going on here - there is no reason to consider puppets to be any less than a "virtual person" in SL. Puppets are often shaped to approximate human form, just as many SL avatars are. Any SLers that also do RL puppets?
[18:26] Tateru Nino: I seem to remember hearing of at least one, but I don't know who.
SL?
Second Life
[18:28] Tateru Nino: At the core, the human body is essentially a puppet for the self. Along more technological lines a car is both immersive and augmenting. Control of the car is generally unconscious, and reflexive. For many who have been here a while, an SL avatar is the
[18:28] Tateru Nino: same.
the human body is not a puppet for the self because you cannot transfer into / out of it
therefore the analogy is flawed
You cannot currently transfer it
like I said, until you can upload/download your consciousness into other "vessels", then we can have this conversation about "the self" again
Not counting out of body experiences, astral projection etc etc
which are all fiction
or rather
there's a difference between fiction and that which has not been scientifically proven
illusions in the first case
out of body experiences have been explained by what the brain attempts to interpret at those moments
astral projection is fiction
explained, but not proven :-D
hence why we stick to "real world example" :D
[18:34] Tateru Nino: I think transferrance is unneccessary - a holdover of a traditionalist view of space - no offense :)
if you can transfer in/out you can distinguish puppeteer/puppet
if you can't, you can't
it makes avatars much more like puppets than people
I know it probably doesn't help SL marketing to think of SL as a shared world of virtual puppets, but that's essentially what SL is.
[18:39] Tateru Nino: I think we'd need to spend some time getting our terminology straight for this discussion. You're using some key terms rather differently to how I would - and that's going to cause confusion up-front.
Tateru would like you to email her :-D
email is untenable for me unfortunately - too much of it to keep up with
hehe
ttfn
isn't a puppet something which is controlled by a person, and an avatar a representation of a person ?
a puppet is not necesarily a representation of that person
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
morning
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
[[mailing-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9544 * AndyMabbett * (+18) on reflection...
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9545 * Phae * (+89) Microformats and Spam -
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
morning Drew
mornin' Whs
Whiskey_M :)
you ready for tomorrow?
hah
oh, that good ;)
getting there ... i've been working on my slides
i'm not sure how it ends yet
perhaps we could make it interactive and let the crowd choose the ending
Looking forward to seeing them --- well normally it ends "and they all lived happily ever after...", but I don't think that is the conclusion you're looking for
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9546 * SXBRC * (+698) Questions -
[[include]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/include * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
[[includes]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/includes * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
[[inclusion]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/inclusion * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
[[inclusions]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/inclusions * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9547 * AndyMabbett * (+217) Unclear status
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9548 * Phae * (+51) It's not just background... it's where to go first!
[[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9549 * AndyMabbett * (-2) Unclear status
[[introduction]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=9550 * Phae * (+56) See also -
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9551 * AndyMabbett * (+11) add date to unanswered question
[[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9552 * AndyMabbett * (+37) Include Pattern Feedback - link to parent page
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
is anyone having trouble getting to the uF site?
anyone?
the site is down for me
hi
I have a question about urls in hcards, on the wiki it says: URL in vCard becomes <a class="url" href="...">...</a> inside the element with class="vcard" in hCard.
can I also make an url <a class="url big" href="..."> ?
where big is?
a css style?
Whiskey_M: yes
shouldn't be a problem
ok. also I wanted to know, is there an example of using a table to display multiple hcards? (one contact in every row)
afaik <span class="hcard"><tr>...</tr></span> isn't allowed?
or can I use <tr class="hcard">?
<tr class="hcard"> is fine
take a look here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Examples_in_the_wild to see how other people are using them
cool
<tr class="hcard"><td class="fn">my name</td><td class="role">developer</td>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
afternoon
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
lo
afternoon
B[B/clear
bah
no one noticed, it's ok.
how's the WSG Microformats meeting shaping-up for tomorrow?
I'm looking forward to it for one :)
Looks like it will be busy.
I have the afternoon off :)
is there anything planned for Nov?
hmm.. nothing exclusively uFy springs to mind.
No
WOW, according to Upcoming, 107 people attending!
There was a large turnout for the first one, so I'm not surprised.
last i checked it was hovering around 23 people - it made a jump somewhere! i'd like to think it is because of MFs
Perhaps :)
I'll have to make some notes and take a couple snaps for the uF blog
i should be down in london in a few weeks, maybe then we all can have an impromptu meet-up... M(F)lashMeetup
That'd be cool.
there are MF groups on Flickr and Ma.gnolia
I don't use magnolia enough. I think I'm on the flickr one.
if not, you should certainly add them there (flickr) as well
will there be space for all those people?
Oh, of course, brian.
I assume so! If it was very limited space, a cap would have been put on the listing
hope so, I'm hoping to bring one of my devs along as a bit of a thank you
then you should get there early!!
ahh, but not before checking out the pub first ;)
The pub we're going to after?
That's where we go for pub standards.
yup, helped no end in the last place popping along for a pint before, being polite - helped a lot when the bar got busier ;)
Phae, do you know who creates all the pub standards stickers?
Yes.. but his name escapes me. 2 seconds!
drewinthehead told me who it was and sent me a link to the site to buy the stickers
matt sephton!
i was wondering if you knew the person, rel="met friend"
the original set were once done for a hen party, but geekified.
oh
and yeah.. rel="met friend" I guess.
He gave me a whole sheet of hte stickers the first time I met him.
but you don't remember his name?
I don't really know him that well... I've met him twice?
rel="aquatinance"
yeah.
hehe
:)
ok, if he is there tomorrow, i had some suggestions for some stickers
oh cool.
maybe you could be the next "guest face"
i'd like to see one that says "NOT a werewolf"
good call.
that would come in handy
is there a field position in hcard?
field as in.. of expertise?
lucasvo, what do you mean by field
There is ROLE and TITLE and ORG
<p class="subscribe xml"><a href="/atom/" type="application/atom+xml" rel="alternate">Subscribe to comments</a></p> is that rel + type correct?
briansuda: that's what I needed
briansuda: thanks
briansuda: N:Public;John;Quinlan;Mr.;Esq.
ATM, it goes to a 404, but Firefox asks me to download the file as MS-DOS exe file :s
lucasvo, that N: looks fine, but there is no FIELD in that?
trovster, then you might have apache configured wrong... do you have a mimeType for application/atom+xml
because that HTML looks fine to me
No idea. But if I remove the type="" part, clicking the link gives me the 404 correctly.
browsers don't usually honor the TYPE attribute, the content-type in the HTTP header takes precidence
do you have a link?
Not presently, and it'll be private when I do, give me 10 mins I'll pm if that's ok
lucasvo, did that answer all of your questions?
Phae, i had a whole series of other UNICODE jokes that would make good stickers
I'm sure he'd use them
I'm annoyed I missed the last one
I was working late and couldn't be bothered by the time I got out
well, if you manage to see him tomorrow, please pass along my suggestions, maybe even an MF sticker! we need more schwag
Very good idea.
I will.
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
Is this valid: <form class="vcard"> <input type="text" class="given-name" value="Peter" /></form>?
Suppose so
you always need a class="fn"
lucasvo: lacks of fn
:( I suck, heh
I mean generally, I mean if one can use input fields.
Sounds like the thread that was going on on the mailing list the other day
you can use input fields, but what do you expect as the data? the @value, the node value, the @title?
about uFs on form fields
briansuda: the node value
with <input /> there is no node value unless you do the (valid but pointless) <input>hello world</input>
is there a microformats validator which chechks if everything is correct?
briansuda: so having an editable vcard is impossible?
1) no validator as of yet
2) editable vcard - issues...
TAILS is client side, so it could extract those form field values (maybe)
X2V is server side, so it would only ever get the default values of <input> not what you entered
ok
not sure how TAILS works with the DOM, either the original page, or the updated DOM, so even AJAXy things updating the page in <span>s and <div>s may not work...
briansuda: do you have a link to TAILS?
http://blog.codeeg.com/tails-firefox-extension-03/
ah, its a firefox extension
cool
it does work for OSX even though it says windows only
I need linux
greetings people of the internets.
should probably work on linux too, lucasvo
hello drewinthehead
hey briansuda
i'm presenting tomorrow night ... argh! just been doing some slides
if you want me to review anything let me know... and/or finish software bugs in X2V?
i'm not going to be able to demo anything (no 'net connection), so i've been mocking stuff up
less impressive, but also much, much simpler
less chance of anything going wrong ;)
true
http://www.web2expo.com/ Proposal deadline: October 30, 2006. Anyone want to put in an MF proposal?
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
a 3 hour tutorial on microformats would probably cover the lot
kingryan and i have a 5 hour tutorial at XTECH06, and near the end it felt like were were rushing it
really? gosh
I guess it depends how much of the basics of nice semantic XHTML you cover
before going on to the uF bits.
i think our presentation slides are available online....
http://theryanking.com/presentations/2006/xtech/tutorial/
that covered most of the popular MFs of the time, but things have grown...
i pitty the folks who sat through it all, 5 hours is a LONG time to listen to Me waffle on about MFs! :)
was there at least a break? ;-)
a few breaks...
with 3 speakers, tomorrow should go by quick and be entertaining
looking forward, did you find your conclusion drew?
not yet, Whiskey_M ... but i've done all my slides up to that point
so i just need to tidy it up tonight
tie up the loose ends
drewinthehead - what's the title of the presentation?
and add more squirrel pictures
"Can your website be your API?"
huh, nice
I'd be very interested in seeing the slides after
i think, all going well, it'll be podcast, McNulty
i may also write it up as an article
(beat)
rel-license applies to the entire page, correct?
yes
from the spec i can't see anything that relates to scope
"By adding rel="license" to a hyperlink, a page indicates that the destination of that hyperlink is license for the current page."
right, that's just what i was reading.
ok, well that makes life easy.
however...
rel-tag says something very similar, and then in other uFs the scope of the tag is reduced to some subset of the page
that may be a special case for tag on the grounds that if a part of the page has a tag applied, then that tag should apply to the whole page (ish)
vmarks is in NC
flickr fails to use rel-license :/
whats being licensed :P
certainly not the page including comments, etc.
I'd be surprised if the comments didn't fall under *some* license
I mean, they must have a policy about who owns them.
oh sure... i just mean.. using rel=license on the license that refers to the image without any conventions yet for specificity there could be considered a bit 'wrong'.. however the comments are licensed.. if only just standard copyright.. i wouldn't think it would change with the status of the photo
similarly for the newsvine examples which i have to dig up more of
where a cc licensed photo from flickr is included in someone else's work
Yeah but the rel-license can point to a flickr page saying 'the pic is license X, the comments are license Y'
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
the joys of working inside a big corp
:)
drewinthehead: show us :)
I promise I won't tell about it out of the Internet
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
So is this something one can just turn up to?
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
you stopped panicing yet Drew ;)
(just incase drewinthehead ha stopped)
not yet!
i'll be less panic'd when i've finished my slides and have my ending
hopefully the bus will be one of the larger ones this evening, so i've got room to get my mac out
we'll I'll have a pint for you beforehand to help calm your nerves ;)
somewhere in that last sentence as an extra apostrophe, but it's too late to worry now
catchya later.
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
anyone mind helping my convince people in #wordpress that there's point in hAtom when Atom already exists?
pnhOldbook, check out http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing for next steps in microformats for licensing.
read em...
and keeping my eye out for examples (like the newsvine case, just need to come across a few stories using flickr images/that markup)
but thanks for pointing it out again
vmarks is in NC
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9553 * BenWest * (+22) Class semantics - fixed an example regarding multiple classnames. there are still todo's left in this faq
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
kingryan: can we add some styles to the wiki stylesheet?
kingryan: I have a convention in my wiki's: I add some class names like "todo", "aside", "note" and add some styles that highlight these items to make them noticeable
kingryan: this way people know which areas are under construction and need work
kingryan: and it supports "direct manipulation"
That'd be helpful.
are you asking if it's technically feasible?
or for permission?
or both?
something like that
rather than telling you to do something...
I don't know how to edit the stylsheet on the wiki
or if I'm able to
I've noticed many other standards bodies follow similar conventions
I wouldn't mind it at all. if you send me some css declarations, I can add them
here comes the pastebin...
hmm, we need a pastebin for this channel
http://pastebin.ca/208619
aye
have you used these classnames anywhere yet?
yeah
all over an internal wiki
I don't mind someone editing them
they aren't particularly well tested
ah, I meant on our wiki
oh yes
just now
:-)
but I can change them
I just started
I wanted to preview before I started editing the css files
ok...
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9554 * BenWest * (+780) Class semantics -
:-)
check the faq
what's #debug_log for?
erm... I just copy/pasted a stylesheet
feel free to delete
well, I just want to get an idea of what these will be used for
#debug_log is an area I use to log events using js
we will have to document the class names, so that others know what to use them for
the class semantics section now has todo, idea, and aside
todo is for something that needs doing
such as "consider ___" or "needs link to __"
ok
aside is to make it a box and float it off to the side
this reminds me that I need to document and style the class names I used on http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume
note is for editorial types of notes
keyword is for important terms
minikeyword are for slightly less important terms
Stick 'em in the FAQ somewhere?
I forget what name and current is for
oh
hmm
current is to tag the current state of affairs from a list of possible states
for example if you are doing planning, and have listed planned phases
I definitely like the idea, but I'm not sure these particular semantics are that useful for us....
you would add current to the phase you are currently in
perhaps we should start with semantics we already employ and try to make them explicit?
sure
pave the cowpaths and all
as long as I get something anaologous to "todo" and "aside" I'll be happy
todo, sure, but we don't currently do asides, do we?
I don't understand
I'm sayin' "start authoring them, then we'll talk about styling them" :D
afaik there's no way to do an aside
so how could you?
you can't do the presentation, no
but you can write the content
and it should make sense without the styling
"Consider creating a new section for web authorint tips?"
this is an aside
it's also a todo
and possibly an idea
sure
it's an aside because it isn't directly related to the content at hand
and as such doesn't really belong inline...
but remember, whatever we do needs to be understandable with css turned off
but I thought of it and needed to write it down quickly
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
plus, some techniques you use in this stylesheet won't work in ie6
asides probably have a short shelf life
yes, I know
evening drew
when I authored this stylesheet I wasn't particularly worried about ie6, just with getting some work done
I'm not suggesting this stylesheet is suitable...
just providing it to jumpstart at least "todo"
neither am i :D
evening Phae, evening all :)
bewest: I'll give you todo, but without the generated content
ok fine :-) I can suffer writing the word TODO:
maybe editorial, or note instead of aside
oh, btw
aside isn't meant as a standalone
it's purely visual
it should go with todo or note at least
note indicates some editorial process at work
todo is "I know this needs to be done but am too lazy to do it at the moment"
s/lazy/busy
so aside is purely a visual compliment... not really meant to convey any meaning
note and todo seem practically the same to me. unless you mean like, foot notes?
oh
hmmm lemme find an example on another spec
http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#htmloptionscollection red box at the bottom is what I consider to be a note... it's a bit different from a todo
oh. They're like edit posties that word and such do. Sort of after thoughts.
where as "Need to define the remaining members." is a todo
bewest: suggested todo styles installed
one is a must do
the other is a suggestion
might not be important..
re
its in http://microformats.org/wiki/skins/monobook/main.css
I think just todo would suffice for most of our needs.
yes, my "edit css" bookmarklet shows the style is present
for hCalendar, am I right in thinking I have to go off and read iCalendar just to read the spec!?
for now, yes, gsnedders
kingryan: thanks, but I must say that seems completely idiotic
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9555 * BenWest * (-12) Q. ''How will microformat class names impact page size?'' - test todo's
gsnedders: in the initial stages, we've been careful to no replicate things from ical to hcal, because the process of replicating specs and assertions is bound to cause errors
but I think we understand it well enough now to do it
but so is getting every implementation to try and put iCal as an hCal going to cause issues.
I agree
vmarks is in NC
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
good afternoon
afternoon
hmmm... that's disturbing - it appears someone was on irc.freenode.net as "tantek" but unauthenticated for about the past 18 hours approximately. i had to RECOVER my nick manually to take it back. just FYI.
gah... I don't understand Andy's comments
someone explains something, I create a list to summarize... then he says I forgot something
he then rearranges the list so that it's the same list... I'm not sure if he's saying the list is useless or what
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
bewest, Justin's input appears to make sense
and thanks much for adding to the FAQ
oh dear, I sold the Eiffel tower to "tantek" yesterday
do you mean I'm not going to cover?
_fil_, did that include postage and reassembly?
well, authenticating to anything really
*ring ring* Did you really mean to purchase the Eiffel Tower? Press 1 for yes, any other button for HELL NO!
well for that price it sure did!
more expensive than YouTube ;-)
and much stronger
_fil_: what about the user base?
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9556 * Tantek * (+17) Q. ''How will microformat class names impact page size?'' - - added links
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=9557 * Tantek * (+226) added to do - create principles page from existing content on site
bewest, i think there may be a short term support contract for the existing user base consisting of tourist-travel discounts.
it depends where you reassemble it
bewest, I added a few links to your new faq answer
thanks
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9558 * AndyMabbett * (+119) Class semantics - another answer
actually a map of where the authors of microformatted content are would be more interesting
I suspect most people hear about it at a conference or something similar
there's a real life touch point
i agree. that would be a rather nifty idea.
and so I would predict finding a heavy concentration within driving distances of usual suspects of presenters
eg there would be heavy concentrations around where tantek and kingryan and brian and friends have made presentations
I'd expect to find them in cities where there's lots of big data centers :D
(if you did servers)
right
how about we just map the adrs in hcards?
or in remote areas of folks who want better access to large clusters of data
kingryan: not sure that would work...
but it'd be interesting
kingryan: that works if you assume that most hcards in existence were authored by who they represent
it might be a good assumption
either way, its data that I have access to
yes...
access counts for a lot
it could be a deal breaker
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9559 * Tantek * (-119) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
reverted unsubstantiated hypothetical and inaccurate answer in the faq
now I'm being accused of aegism
aegism?
biased against the aegean sea?
hmmm
aegist
sorry, being called an aegist
ageist?
hmmm
sorry been looking at MSDN all day
ah, that explains it
I actually think the Aegean sea is quite nice and warm
I can't imagine why anyone would be aegist.
Or wait, is aegism discriminating for or against the Aegean sea?
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9560 * AndyMabbett * (+145) Warning: <a> proprietary attribute "data"
[[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9561 * Tantek * (-408) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Phae
reverted spurious comment about "data" attribute on <a>. Nowhere in include-pattern or include-pattern-issues is there a "data" attribute on <a> mentioned.
later.
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9562 * AndyMabbett * (+455) reinstate and clarify
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9563 * Tantek * (+267) moved issue closer to source of issue for clarity, answered unclear status feedback
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9564 * AndyMabbett * (+1566) restore with evidence; getting fed up with disingenuity of some people....
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9565 * AndyMabbett * (-44) Class semantics - remove suplus text - even greater difference!
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9566 * AndyMabbett * (+4) Class semantics - fix
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9567 * AndyMabbett * (+139) Unclear status -
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
hmmm
Anyd's example uses table for layouts...
which is expressly mentioned
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9568 * Tantek * (-1526) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
reverted due to suboptimal use of microformats - bad example
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9569 * Tantek * (+125) fixed nesting of response, and added follow-up.
tantek: are we going to play the revert+edit game now? I was going to just leave a note that the example was poor
I don't there is any need to keep disingenuous responses to FAQ questions.
bewest - your answer the FAQ was sufficient.
thanks. I agree, but I'm biased ;-)
and claims of "it doubles the size" by a suboptimal example are spurious
and bewest, regarding reverts+edits,
I am more willing to tolerate Andy's personal attacks on my on the mailing list (which I think will get old soon enough), than corruption or addition of incorrect content to the wiki.
hmmm
a comparison of gzipped sizes would be more apropos in any case
responding to his personal attacks are a sub-optimal use of time. if his pattern of personal attacks doesn't stop soon though then it begins to damage the community as a whole and may require moderation.
I've just been told get a working mail client
yeah, you are right
bewest, yes, his personal attacks are spreading to beyond just me to others like yourself, as evidenced by that remark.
well, he claimed I was ageist
indeed
I asked him what we should actually do about it and his reply is to get a working mail client
actually, first he invalidated work that several people were converging on, /then/ called me ageist after that
having a different opinion than several people is not a problem
but namecalling / age-baiting is a problem
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