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amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
in what ways is SIOC and hatom similar?
url for SIOC?
hi factoryjoe
http://rdfs.org/sioc/
I am in love with hAtom now
ince!
nice!
I read this http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-November/001866.html
and that reminded me why microformats are the way to go...again.
finally I have my container for quests.
I was not pleased with xoxo as it was too loose.
mm
have you looked into the group brainstorming work?
yeah I have. xoxo = a list.
a very simple list
no real rules beyond that....all optional
very similar to opml
but any browser will support it
as, it should ideally validate
xoxo + hatom is pretty good
or xoxo + xfn
I am thinking hAtom +xFolk
for the quests
ma.gnolia already supports that
it's a good reference
technorati already indexes that
Otavo has xFolk but no good container to frame the set of links
container?
yes
let me give you an example
http://otavo.com/quests/great-online-cartoons
that contains a set of links which are marked up as xFolk.
with hAtom, I can frame the quest the reason why those links are relevant
right
<hatom><hentry><xfolk></hentry></htaom>
to humans it is all the same...but for auto parsing hAtom will enbed more data
yup
embed.
right
plus, i can subscribe to the webpage
no need for a separate feed
yes
did you see my post on this/
http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/08/06/wordpress-makes-a-move-towards-hatom-gets-upgrades/
yes that's what brought it to my attention
I still read your blog...sometimes.
;)
I had scoured the microformats to have a container for the quest but left it out as I was not satisfied with xoxo.
I mean these days everyone uses <ul> lists for design
if the class="xoxo" is optional I felt it was impossible to guarantee proper parsing.
I like xoxo's principles...it is just not for what I needed on quests
hmm
i see
you might post this to the list then
and see what they offer
i see your point
but you can do things like look for context
furthermore -- xoxo only gives you structure
and loose relationship
but xoxo inside an hentry could prove useful, especially with xfolk --
yes xoxo is good substitute for opml but beyond that things go gray.
that starts to build a rich semantic picture
hence the question about SIOC?
again, post the question to the group framing it as such...
i wonder if a quest is really like a group?
SIOC is a like opml a layer outside.
with members?
um
yes a quest is a micro-community intent on solving something
or finding something...whatever they are gathering to do as defined in the quest
like a magnolia group?
finding what?
is it finite?
yes
ic
think collections in flock
but social collections based on intention as defined in the quest instead of tag/category
so the HOW/WHY not the WHAT is the gathering force
sure
quests don't have a 'finish' per-se
but the structure and relationships may already be expressed in other mFs
yeah
well, try the list
at least you have working code
and people like to fix working sites! ;)
lol
yeah I'll see how hAtom plays out.
otavo is doing well out in the wild...we even got our first plugin developed by one of the users.
community developed that is...it was a nice suprise.
http://lwallenstein.poweredbygeek.net/wordpress/?p=8
sidebar widget for wordpress
we had built 1 for myspace, JS widget with Typepad installer
see you around factoryjoe I have to get some stuff done.
nite
nice
ok g'nitte
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
qid is David Osolkowski (http://wadny.com/)
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
has anyone given any thoughts to using the GEO microformat with images?
<abbr title="3.14;2.78" class="geo"><img src="house.png"/></abbr>
or according to the hcard-parsing page, on an IMG element it looks to the alt?
<img src="house.png" alt="3.14;2.78" class="geo"/> would that acceptable?
alt certainly wouldn't be appropriate ... it's different information, not an alternative
i don't think abbr is right either
as for a good solution, i'm not sure i have one, so enough with the negative comments from me ;)
wel @alt is alternative, which is ok to be different
drewinthehead, what happened to http://tools.microformatics.com/
http://tools.microformatic.com/
ah
then there is a squater at the plural
nope, that's me also :D
i'll make sure they point to the same place
:)
is there a link to download hKit?
http://allinthehead.com/hkit
i should add it to that site too
i'm in a mess :)
i have run across this hCard page (http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/SVS/personnel/henrich/index.php) i think the author of that page has been in this IRC before.
it uses PGP in the hCard, so this is a first in the wild, but it has malformed UTF-8, so i can't parse it
amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
what's the url for the technorati kitchen thing that was announced about MFs?
hello amanuel
hi tantek
let me know if you have any feedback about http://kitchen.technorati.com/search/
k.
I had a chat yesterday about hAtom with factoryjoe
I was looking for a container to hold lists of links based on intentions.
I want it easier for search engines and other automated system to parse and recognize that a given set of xFolk are related
but I see that microformat search doesn't do anything with xFolk :(
or hAtom
I'll be back soon. gotta go now.
interesting that i stumble across Microformats references on Wikipedia all the time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_link)
Jonnay is a programmer, graphic designer and musician. He blogs at http://blog.jonnay.net and his music is at http://www.jonnay.net
[[WikiNode]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=WikiNode&diff=0&oldid=8109 * MarkDilley * (+0)
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
I just wanted to submit something for considering by the MF community.
Seemed too small to go through the full proposal process, but I wanted to ask if anyone else thought that using rel="nsfw" to mark NSFW content was a good idea.
I wrote about the issue here: http://cgranade.blogspot.com/2006/02/not-safe-for-work-case-for-new.html
that whole issue has been dealt with before
Ah. OK. Sorry to waste time, then. Didn't notice.
the whole idea of defining what IS and what ISN'T safe is out of scope
have a quick search on the mailing list archives, and you'll see the fall-out
OK. I'll go do that. Guess I should have first. Someone from another mailing list recommended posting here.
Once again, sorry to bring up yesterday's debate.
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-July/004942.html
not a problem, we're used to it
Sadly, I'm sure that's the case.
the more and more people that bring things-up the more and more references we get, and our archives come in very handy
the IRC is logged as well, alot of discussion happens here
http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/
(obviously not too much discussion on the weekends :) )
the easiest way to search both of those is to use google and search for "site:http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/ <search terms here>"
Thanks for the advice.
not a problem - the mailing list can be quite active, so there is ALOT to dig through!
Seems like that would work, though it might be a bit verbose. Is there any way of attaching a rel-tag to an outgoing link? I can see that being useful in general.
xfolk
Related tags for 'nsfw': Eye Candy, Video, Sexy, Nudity, Sex, Funny, Glamour, Brunette, Music, Humor
according to technorati
That's an interesting set of related tags.
KevinMarks, am i imagining things, or did the http://kitchen.technorati.com/ used to have an RSS feed?
... an RSS feed of the search results
not sure
or did i just wish it did?
ask tantek - he did the front-end bits
KevinMarks, question about pingerati, do you want the ACTUAL page with the microformatted data, or does the URL get crawled?
eh?
i dont quite follow that distinction
you send a url, we download it and look for mf's
sorry, i meant that if i sent http://example.com/ would that spider all the links within the domain, or should i submit example.com/foo/ example.com/bar/ ...
each individually
individually
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
briansuda: I noticed in xhtml2vcard.xsl that sometimes abbr is checked with name() and sometimes with local-name(). why not always local-name()?
not sure, it should be consistant
one gets the element name, and the other gets namespace and element name
right, and I'm concerned since I'm using Dean Edward's abbr-cadabra trick, which uses a namespace on abbr elements so IE will behave :)
let me know which works, and i can update the XSLT
can not all calls to name() be changed to local-name()?
probably, yes
local-name is the one then? that will ignore the namespace and look at just the element name
yes
briansuda: how did you lean XSL?
i've always puttered around with it. The easiest way to learn it is to just work on something
my XSLTs are not the best - they need alot of clean-up and refactorying :)
I've had to deal with it recently and it's pretty daunting
it can be, it is a declarative language so it takes abit to wrap your head around, but it pretty powerful once you understand it
ok, i have converted all the name() to local-name() and i am just testing for regression errors... so far so good
excellent
ok, you can use http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/ to test, that has the updated XSLT
sorry, I'm getting a new version ready and uploaded
how outdated is the version at feeds.technorati.com/contact/?
I'm using it for comparison
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
technorati's version includes the geo information (html:abbr'd), which is actually incorrect because I have it as a child of the adr element (intentionally), sudo.co.uk is properly including additional URLs, and is translating an en-dash properly.
but sudo.co.uk now drops the region, which is also html:abbr'd, technorati does not
do you have a link?
I'm minimizing the page now
briansuda: http://vivalaweb.info/hcard.html
ok, i know what the problem is....
in order to make sure the HTML is well-formed i have to pass the page through TIDY (http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/tidy?docAddr=http%3A%2F%2Fvivalaweb.info%2Fhcard.html) and that is stripping out your <html:abbr>
hey all, i think i may have an idea for a new microformat but i'm not sure the best way of going about getting started; ie fining out if it's already been done or where to start researching the existing applications that would benefit from the mf
the technorati service uses an internal TIDY, my hosting provider has an old version of PHP, so tidy is not installed.
Cliche, read through this first: http://microformats.org/wiki/process
grr, tidy loves being the bane of my existance
thanks, found that page last night but it was late so didnt read it and couldnt find it again
cgriego, i will soon be moving to a new hosting provider and should be able to run TIDY locally so i can configure some of this stuff
cgriego, if you see kingryan or tantek online, they can update the Technorati service, i have checked the code into hg.microformats.org so they can get it from there.
ok
do you plan on updating the version number at all?
and of course, thanks for your help :)
Cliche: what's your idea? I think I'm fairly familiar with what sorts of things have been proposed before so I can let you know if someone's already come up with the same idea
oh you did update the version, the minor version isn't in the Prodid
qid, just reading the page briansuda linked me. i know what the problem is and it will be pretty straight forward to document current behavior but i can't quite work out if microformats is the way to solve the problem.
that's ok, microformats can't solve everything :-)
if i tell you the starts of my idea woul you be able to help me decide if its worth persuing or not?
sure
cgriego, in the comments at the top of the XSLT there is a version 0.8.4, i should update that in the PRODID too, so you can easily tell the difference between the technorati version and mine
well a few days ago i aksed my family members, non technical net users, what they found annoying about the net. and nearly all of them said its annoying that its impossible to tell the _way_ in which someone said something. and on a similar line my sister, who uses adium, says is annoying that emoticon rnt standard, for example to show a face some protocols use :) while others use :-) and she dosnt want to have to rememb
I'm guessing that's more the fault of lazy or poor writing than any technical issue
or indeed the very nature of written communication
on the subject of emoticons more specifically, I'm not sure I see an issue... :) and :-) are both smiley faces, it seems unlikely that someone would understand what one means but not the other
once someone gets the general principle of an emoticon just being a sideways face, most of them become pretty obvious
it was a very basic example. some protocols/clients use : ) and some : - ) when using a multi protocol client if you type the wrong one the other person dosn't get the emoticon u intended, they get either a different one or just the text, unless it recognises both as the same image
i realise now having typed it out that microformats rnt the solution to that problem
mfs are very kewl though :D
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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