Timestamps are in UTC.
[[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7153 * RyanKing * (+35)
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
xtof is Christophe Ducamp you could find me on http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/Xtof/HomePage
[[xfn-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+878) [fr:translation of xfn]
[[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7154 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1146) [fr:updating new examples]
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7155 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Exemples avec quelques problèmes - typo
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7156 * ChristopheDucamp * (+64) typo
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7157 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4) Exemples - typo
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
[[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7158 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1317) [fr:synchro with original page]
hahaha
where's tantek
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7159 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3576)
Hixie: nicely done
that was indeed quite impressive
but i mailed him so it was redundant :-)
greetings
[[hcard-tests-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-tests-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1515) [fr:traduction hcard-tests]
[[xfolk-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=7160 * ChristopheDucamp * (+87) [fr: ajout claimID]
[[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=7161 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) typo
[[Template:OpenIssue-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:OpenIssue-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+125) [fr:traduction Template:OpenIssue]
[[hcalendar-issues-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=7162 * ChristopheDucamp * (+331) [fr: minor edits - added fr - cette page doit être traduite]
[[hcard-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=7163 * ChristopheDucamp * (+105) Gabarit traduit - minor edits - page à traduire
[[icalendar-implementations-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icalendar-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=7164 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1255) [fr:sync - error msg in MS outlook 2003 to be translated in french]
[[vote-links-faq-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links-faq-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+7019)
[[vote-links-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=7165 * ChristopheDucamp * (+18) VoteLinks : les Questions Fréquemment Posées (FAQ) - translation to be reviewed
[[votelinks-faq-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/votelinks-faq-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+31)
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7166 * ChristopheDucamp * (-4) Propriétés Singulières vs. Plurielles - typo
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
PhilipAshlock is in Bellingham WA and can be found online at http://www.philaestheta.com/
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
[[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=7167 * Nickshanks * (+164) XFN Implementations - adding my app to top of list per instructions
[[user-interface]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=user-interface&diff=0&oldid=7168 * Boneill * (+218) added tails export firefox plugin
[[User:Boneill]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Boneill * Boneill * (+32)
?def boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
while it's quiet ;)
so that's how it's done
?def danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
[[xfn-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=7169 * ChristopheDucamp * (+200) XFN Implementations - add xfngraph
[[xfn-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=7170 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) XFN Implementations - typo
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
[[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=7171 * TomArmitage * (+20) adding rel-tag to Nature Network Boston
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
drewinthehead: http://allinthehead.com/demo/hcard/best-guess.php
re: 'sir bill s preston esquire bsc msc phd' - give's additional name for equire, bsc and msc
yes, it doesn't deal with multiple prefixes or suffixes
I thought it did prefixes
yes, it does prefixes
just not multiples
I meant, multiple prefixes, I sure you showed an example where it did
some of the prefixes look like multiples because they are multiworded
but they're just a single prefix
aha, ok
OK, re: 'trovster' - nickname (if single word)?
right
mornin'
<div class="fn">trovster</div> -- hmm
if it's a single word and no N is specified, then it's presumed to be a nickname and N is filled with blank values
tis an annoying program, 'eh :@
mornin' pnhChris
i may go back to the last stable version.. at least it was stable :P
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
trovster: do you think it's worth coding up the multiple suffix stuff?
like Ph.D. M.D. ?
I have a friend that has both
hi tantek
right, that's it
i'm wondering if it's worth adding that to my best-guess-n example
actually i may just be able to kick it into a loop at that point. hmm. might be easy.
makes sense
Yup, definitely.
BSc, MSc, PHD...
ok, do we need multiple prefixes too?
I was thinking about that last night...
really? that's ...sad
:P
:
(
btw, it'd be nice if it was GET instead
i'm not sure if prefixes are hierarchical in some way
yeah, it would. I'm trying to remember why I made it POST
Have you added bsc and such?
"reverend mr" ?
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
the question is whether reverend mr is one prefix or two, if you see what i mean
my list has reverend dr in it
(and reverend mother)
I think, if the prefix already exists separately, like dr or mr, then it's separate, but I don't know whether it's correct.
I guess there's no harm in spotting as many as i can
the problem i'm getting here with the suffixes is that i'm working from the end of the list, chopping off each suffix as I find it, so when i find a word that doesn't match i stop the suffix check. this causes a failure if there's a suffix in the middle of a list of suffixes that i don't recognise
although by the point we're talking about someone using multiple honorific suffixes online, we're well into the depths of the '20' part of the 80/20 rule, and i'm inclined not to give a damn
certainly with uncommon suffixes
PhD MSc etc, fine
good list of academic suffixes here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master's_degree
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
i don't know what sort of course you have to do to get STD after your name, but it's probably best avoided!
Where's that drewinthehead?
on the wikip link
I searched for STD
try a cheap bar
S.T.D. i think
Sacred Theology heh
do you think it's worth studying Oriental Medicine to be able to put DOM after your name?
only of you get a doctorate
.... Dr. DOM
sure, it's a Doctor of Oriental Medicine ... I think we need to get Jeremy Keith onto that.
ok, here we go ... http://allinthehead.com/demo/hcard/best-guess.php?name=Rev+Wg+Cdr+Drew+McLellan+PHD+MSc+BSc+Hons
Ace, how about trevor 'trovster' morris ;)
so that a nickname is implied from the quoted section in the middle of a name? hmm.
there's no rule for that
Oh, well, I thought it was how people did nicknames
you do have a point
find some examples in the wild ;)
honorific prefix! ;)
if what sent, trovster?
About the chinese name
saw nothing here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_name -- aha, I was thinking about this earlier (for some reason thinking of the spanish syntax) - 'Personal names in Chinese culture follow a number of conventions different from those of personal names in Western culture. Most noticeably, a Chinese name is written with the surname first and the given name second.'
Spanner + works + throw = ^^
I have a friend that uses his middle name as his first as well,
e.g. if he's "Joe Frank Bloggs", he is called Frank by everyone
but that's a bit too weird to bother with imo ;)
boneill: But that's not the purpose of this tool
sure, which is why we nest N inside FN
oh right, just trying to work out which bit is which in a name?
the purpose of this tool is to try and recover *something* if you have a name as a string and it doesn't fit the rules for implied-n or implied-nickname optimisation
so it's a kind of get-out-of-jail-free card for emergencies
ah
under normal circumstances you'll want to capture the data well in the first instance :)
but sometimes that can be out of your control
What you think about the Chinese spanner?
i don't think it's a spanner
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
we're never going to be able to catch every instance perfectly - this is just a best-guess
What do you think of the "given 'nick' family" syntax?
if it's used widely and can be demonstrated to be so, then you could propose it as processing rule
coz, you know, parsing names isn't hard enough yet ;)
heh
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
i think in all cases the person proposing anything should be made to write the first parser for it ;)
http://allinthehead.com/demo/hcard/best-guess.php?name=Robert+Craig+%22Evel%22+Knievel%2C+Jr. not bad, not bad ;)
http://allinthehead.com/demo/hcard/best-guess.php?name=Eddie+%27the+Eagle%27+Edwards
yeah, it's becoming usable for rescue, I think
There are two ;)
ok, so I fail the 1980s skiers test.
Just need to look for 'nick name' or "nick name"
i can look for quoted strings and class them as a single 'additional-name'
but i can't imply a nickname
or nickname
hi briansuda
briansuda: That's where this conversation started :)
we'd need a rule for that, surely
can't just go making it up as I go along...
I think quoted implies nickname
not more rules, keep the man off my back
be careful with whitespace around ' tho
i think tantek made a good point and this is an implementation, by implementation issue, not a spec issue
true, otherwise Fred O'Hare O'Brian will get upset
hmm
not to throw another spanner in the works, but "suda, brian" fails your best-guess.php and that should be an easy one to catch.
oops .. it should be catching that
that's basic implied-n
same with "b. suda"
yeah, but you abstract that to (lname), (fname) (addtional)...
it should just be returning <div class="fn">suda, brian</div>
just re-order it then pass it back through your current algorithm
if should return that for FN, but there is structure in there for N
the purpose here is more pre-prossessing to make sure we end up with a valid value for FN
so it does nothing if the value is already valid
ok, so you are working on something that will either let the string slide if it already passes implied-n, otherwise give it structure to your best-guess and then add N?
correct
it lets slide if it passes implied-nickname too
ok, then it does what it is suppost to in those situations
Yes, coz drewinthehead is tricky :D
OK, then if we take it one more step in my example it fails "suda, brian d."
well, it guess wrong, but works
i have no case for that :)
it is pretty edge case
do you think it's safe to presume if the first word is followed by a comma it's the family-name?
(once prefixes have been dealt with)
well, maybe you could assume that everything AFTER the comma could be moved to the front of the string. (that is after suffixes have been dealt width)
suda, brian, jr. (i'm not sure anyone write it that way?)
suda, jr., brian?
suda jr., brian
i'm not sure a human would be able to figure all those out with 100% reliability for any given name ;)
james, jr., john
true, but i think you could experiement with (string 1), (string 2) == (string 2) (string 1)
james, jr., john, mr?
sure, i'll give it a bash
then after you have re-ordered, feed back through the current algorithm to figure out N
(string 1), (string 2) (string 3) == (string 2) (string 3) (string 1)
suda, brian middle ??
http://allinthehead.com/demo/hcard/best-guess.php?name=Mr+McLellan%2C+Andrew+Ian+BSc+Hons
the problem is i'm now corrupting the FN value by changing the order. hmm.
i'm going to have to refactor my markup stange in order to output the items in the order in which they're discovered
but first, lunch.
That last one you posted seems fine...
I wouldn't reorder the n-implementation.
the FN is supposed to indicate the order in which the name components are output
it is just a suggestion, if it doesn't solve any problems, or isn't useful don't spend too much time on it
FN is formatted name, or display name - it is how i want to be "printed"
it doesn't have to do with order
i COULD have a completely different FN than N.
right, which in this case should end up being whatever string is input
when N is a child of FN, it is about order, essentially
(a descendant of ..)
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
hmm .. looks like it's going to be more of a headache than it's worth at this point, briansuda
i think i'll wait for it to become a non-theoretical problem
drewinthehead, not a problem, just make a note somewhere incase anyone else the same "brilliant" idea
the question remains - should I attempt to detect that scenario and correctly categorise the name parts, even if that means i'm messing with the FN
or should i forget about the comma and allow the name parts to be miscategorised, preserving the input string as FN
there has to be an easier way to fix this ...
well, i think you should assume the person entering the text is correct, they know their name better than you
and if you are just re-outputing their input (e.g. blog comment by (FN HERE)) then you are passing the issue along to the next hCard->vCard extractor, otherwise you could be introducing errors along the way
sage advice
kingryan is ryan king
got it..! http://allinthehead.com/demo/hcard/best-guess.php?name=McLellan%2C+Andrew+Ian
except, i'd stript the (comma) , from the output <span class="family-name">McLellan,</span>
or alteast move it outside the element <span class="family-name">McLellan</span> ,
yes, it should be outside the span
i left it in, as it's an important part of the readability of the name when presented
updated.
"Brian Suda, Jr." works as well, but the comma placement needs some luvin' there too
thanks, updated.
what kinda markup would you use? an outline?
s/transforming/visualizing
its really more of a flow network, though
not an outline
maybe RDF or something
all the software I see to do project management/visualizing charts and whatnot sucks
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
hey kingryan
hey RobertBachmann
In your email "[uf-discuss] proposal: a[rel=~include]" the subject uses @rel but the body contains @class ("<a href="#j" class="include"></a>")
damn, you're right
that's what I get for trying to be clever
[[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=7172 * RodBegbie * (+94) Many more examples - added Groovy Links
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
I'm not crazy about the A element being empty in that case
though what to put in it? the whole point is to reduce redundancy
I'm not crazy about it either, but it seems the least of the various evils
shouldn't the item that performs the include be block-level?
why? would the block level matter?
depending on implementation, what if the included markup were literally to be included? you could end up with block level elements nested inside inline elements
well, we already have that problem
with the object tag
object is block level, isn't it?
you can include an <li> with it, into a non-list context
true, but that's not prescribed is it?
you *can* do all sorts of weird things that wouldn't make sense :)
I wouldn't say that my example wouldn't make sense
nesting an LI directly inside an A wouldn't make sense
perhaps i'm over-thinking
yeah
to put another restriction on authors could make it a bit too difficult to use
you can already create non-sensical stuff with the include-pattern
people have used it to include <area>'s
just that if it's supposed to be an 'include' it would make sense to me that the default use shouldn't render a document invalid if the include we to be literally included
right
I'd rather go with author's instincts, where we've already seen people use the includes in somewhat wacky ways
so is it rel="include" you're proposing?
no, the subject said rel, but the body said class
I meant class, just as it is now
Hi!
hi alexander_
trying to add a skype address to a hCard - anybody have any experience with this?
skype has a URI scheme
so you can just use that as one of your urls
thats what I have done, the trouble is when it gets parsed to a vCard it looks kinda ugly... "skype:jungsthlm?call"
have you seen a vcard that didn't look ugly?
haha... maybe thats true
would be nice to just pass the skype name though
but the consumer needs to know its a skype name, no?
sure
btw, the technorati hcard->vcard parser only passes one url (the first one in the card) - is it possible to pass on more than one into the vcard?
it should pass more than one, can you show me an example where it doesn't?
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
This is a test page where I only get one adress passed per contact http://trustmojo.com/testing/hCards.html
I'll take a look at it, but you might want to validate that page
sure thing, its just a test right now... just trying out the parser etc
briansuda: I just pushed a test for multiple URLs
#11
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
Anybody know why my hCard when parsed to vCard (via technorati) only gets one URL entry? Only the first URL gets passed? Comments?
because the code isn't setup to get more than one URL yet
aha, ok, the technorati parser that is?
recently, we finalised which properties can have multiple values and which can't now that needs to get folded back into the the hCard->vCard code
Ok, i see. BTW thanks for the nice hack to ba able to include images into the parse :-)
is anyone here publishing atom feeds of hcalendar events?
ah, looks like eventful is doing that
deanero_: yeah, we're doing that.
that's super cool. i think i'm going follow suit with band tour dates...
If you have any complaints about our Atom feeds, please yell. They're my fault. :)
have anything that consumes them by doing something other then just rendering the HTML?
not sure if that's doable or what..
that would rock
something to run over the current item would be doable.. I just don't know what would be possible beyond that
automated, etc.
though at a point you kinda have to ask why not just subscribe to the ical feed :P
:)
Because iCalendar's location field sucks?
i figure folks will just subscribe to the atom feed because that's what they do and it'll look nice and normal. then if some clever developer does something nifty with it in the future it'll just work
i'm trying to invest in my future laziness... :)
ok.. so i guess i can get kinda there in a hacky way by making a stylesheet that uses a bg img or something to highlight where a microformat is... and then write a script to try and extract data from the currently viewed item
that could be doable
there is a script that will convert an hAtom feed into an Atom feed inside NewsNetWire
a similar script could be used to detect hCalendar and add an icon to an external web service that could extract the data from the source. Maybe?
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7173 * ChrisCasciano * (+77) Chris Casciano -
yeah.. i wrote the hatom script
its bascally an actionscript wrapper around hatom2atom.xsl
are there folks using hatom exclusively and then going from there to atom?
but it works by "subscribing" to the script.. not sure if there's any facility to filter contents of normal subscriptions
i've used hatom in a few places that don't typically have an atom feed / any feed
to subscribe to a page
or something similar
then there might be an easy way to make a wrapper for the feeds.technorati.com for hCalendar
but yts, a lot of cases its redundant... with the bonus of being good semantic markup
yes*
sure briansuda, but i'd love a way to do it without asking someone to route every feed though some script or proxy
we'll see what i can throw together this weekend
well, you'd have to 'detect' if hCal was present, then just add a link to the service, then it would only put a load if people extract the data
ah.. yeah
i see what you mean
for the action once its found
just like you see "email this" of "digg this" at the bottom of some feedburner feeds
* or *
there's a good WordPress plugin opportunity
:P
some "extract this" link on all the feed contents
like those "digg this" links
or textpattern plugin
though I don't know if theres a sensible way to do that with mine
you'd have to parse all the entries on the fly
something to think about for the weekend...
well, you could cheat and look for something like <(.+) class="(.+|\w+)vevent(.+|\w+)"
and if that is present then add the link. It COULD have some false positives, but a Regular Expression is easier on the client-side than parsing
let the services figure out if there are valid hCalendars in the document
or simiply add that to the hAtom2Atom xslt, do a quick check for descendant-or-self::*[contains(" vevent ",@class)] and if there is something then add the link to the output
check while processing. Save some CPU cycles later.
oh.. i was thinking for changes to my other scripts.. for textpattern
and having the feed go out with the link
vs. adding it on the client side
there are a few different options.
(i think) feedreader automatically added stuff to the bottom of feeds, it brings people back to their site to do utility things like "email a friend about this link" and stuff.
extract hCa* from this feed is the same thing.
value-added services
right.. but the others are all universal
universal?
vs.. me blogging an event once in a blue moon
ah, true
you can ALWAYS email someone
applicable to every entry
extracting hCal, is only every once and while
well, for you, yes, but eventful and others have it in every entry
in most (non-eventful) cases
:P
think about it, because you could pass another "flag" into the XSLT and if that is present then do the checks for additional microformats, otherwise use the default behaviour which is what it does now.
nah
:P
but also because I'd be looking at more then hcalendar if i did something
actually, i'd be more interested in solutions for Vienna - that's open source
(not sure what endo can do beyond dates)
plus.. i use NNW
so
Vienna is NNW minus the evil
but you need a steady dose of evil from somewhere
yeah.. quittin time
i ditched NNW the moment it required me to register for a service i'll never use just to make use of software i'd already paid for
i should get out of here before i overstay my welcome
catchya later :)
later
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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